this fiscal cliff argument right now that we're facing is a good opportunity to begin that conversation. you're already seeing it, joe, with some republicans out there, bill kristol and others saying oh, yeah, i guess we can begin to look at putting that top rate higher for those higher income earners simply to begin to make the argument to the middle class and the poor that we stand more with them than with those at the other end of the spectrum. >> so steve rattner, explain the math to me because i'm not a big fan of raising the top rate to 39.6%. in fact, i hate that idea for, you know, small business owners that make $250,000, $300,000, $350,000. explain the math about the difference between going after the millionaires, raising the capital gains rate a little bit, getting rid of this carried interest exception. exemption. all these things that you've been talking about. what is the math of it? can we get to $1.2 trillion without raising that top marginal rate that i think catches the small business owner more than the billionaire? >> the math is a little tough to get there. it's no